(meteorobs) Question about radiant drift
Wayne T Hally
meteors at eclipse.net
Fri Jun 4 16:09:40 EDT 2004
Peter,
I've been work occupied so have not replied. Sorry. In essence there is an
inherant drift for every shower based on our motion around the sun. Each
day we move approximately 1 degree in our orbit around the sun. (360
degrees/ average 365.25 days is about 1 degree per day). So therefore the
radiant drifts about 1 degree every day along the plane of the ecliptic
(our orbit). This is a fact of our orbit. Any radiant that does not move 1
degree per day along the ecliptic cannot be real, unless an extrordinary
explanation is available. The other variations are caused by the specific
angle that the shower intersects our orbit, but is in most cases negligable
(<1 degree per week, vs 1 degree per day along the ecliptic). For very high
inclination meteor streams ( Quadrantids, etc) it can be more significant.
Also, for streams with Jupiter affected orbits, quirks can occur.
Wayne
----------
From: Bias, Peter V[SMTP:pbias at flsouthern.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:31 PM
To: 'bamm at upastrosoc.org'; 'Global Meteor Observing Forum'
Subject: RE: (meteorobs) Question about radiant drift
Well, we've waited a couple of days and no one has jumped forward to help
with this question. I think that most of us are a bit unsure of the theory
of radiant drift and that is why there is a hesitation to help. In other
words, most of us are incapable of answering the question properly.
I'll take a stab at it. It seems to me that radiant drift would be unique
to each shower because of the shower's orbital inclination, whether the
meteor stream approached the Earth from behind or the front of Earth's path
in space, and the unique orbit that each meteor stream has. I don't see
how
a simple formula would be able to handle these features, but I'm waiting
for
someone to tell me how they would. :-)
After all, back in the '20s, Denning still thought that some radiants were
stationary even in the face of C. P. Olivier's theoretical challenges. Why
did he feel so strongly that there was no movement at all? Perhaps we need
a refresher on the theoretical underpinnings of radiant drift. Anyone
capable of helping us out?
Pete Bias
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorobs-bounces at meteorobs.org
[mailto:meteorobs-bounces at meteorobs.org]On Behalf Of Bamm Gabriana
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:07 AM
To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
Subject: (meteorobs) Question about radiant drift
I just want to ask, is there a way to "compute" the
radiant drift of a meteor shower? What I mean is, is
there a formula that can be used to predict where a
radiant would be at a given time? From what I've read
it seems the radiants move along curves of
approximately constant ecliptic latitudes. So I may
just need to know the change in ecliptic longitude and
convert the results to RA and Dec. Thanks for any
explanations in advance.
--- meteorobs-request at meteorobs.org wrote:
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. FW: Cometary meteorites! (Ed Majden)
> 2. Re: Re: 2004 June Bootids
> (musabajo02 at foxinternet.com)
> 3. Re: Re: 2004 June Bootids (Pierre Martin)
> 4. Re: Re: 2004 June Bootids (Pierre Martin)
> 5. Re: 2004 June Bootids (Sergey Shanov)
> 6. Re: Re: 2004 June Bootids (Robert McNaught)
> 7. RE: Perseid outburst prediction this year?
> (Lyytinen Esko)
> 8. RE: 2004 June Bootids (Jeremie VAUBAILLON)
> 9. Re: Re: 2004 June Bootids (Skywayinc at aol.com)
> 10. Re: 2004 June Bootids (Paul Jones)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:37:02 -0700
> From: Ed Majden <epmajden at shaw.ca>
> Subject: (meteorobs) FW: Cometary meteorites!
> To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
> Message-ID: <BCE0BB4E.A07F%epmajden at shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> ----------
> From: Ed Majden <epmajden at shaw.ca>
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:10:12 -0700
> To: METEOROBS <meteorobs at atmob.org>
> Subject: Cometary meteorites!
>
> I also found the discussion interesting. One thing
> that I find troublesome
> is the general high velocity of Comets near the
> earth. Are there any short
> period comets with low velocities? The Geminids are
> thought to be of
> asteroidal origin but I have seen some discussion
> that this may be a comet
> core instead of an asteroid. The Geminid meteoroids
> seem to be more solid
> objects rather than the more friable cometary
> types. Of course there is
> also Tunguska! Tagish Lake seems to be in a league
> of its own. By the way,
> more than a few grams of Tagish Lake was recovered.
> Unfortunately much of
> it ended up on the lake bottom after the thaw. I
> have a tiny sample of
> Tagish in my small collection of meteorites.
> Cheers:
> Ed
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:19:31 -0700
> From: musabajo02 at foxinternet.com
> Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Re: 2004 June Bootids
> To: Global Meteor Observing Forum
> <meteorobs at meteorobs.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<0F89BC54-B32F-11D8-8720-000393707E1E at foxinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
> roo,
>
> thought you'd enjoy interpreting russian here. . .
>
> xoxoxo
>
> On Friday, May 28, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Sergey Shanov
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Huan,
> >
> > Including in a resonance trails June Bootid are
> similar snake. The
> > majority
> > by this the snakes (with a major value delta_a) is
> located inside an
> > orbit
> > of the Earth. Probably, too far to meet with the
> Earth long before 23
> > June.
> > Thus, fragments, farther from a comet, have the
> greater value delta_a.
> > It
> > noticeably even by reviewing the large-scale
> table. All this valid, if
> > old
> > meteoroids have not begun chaotic driving.
> > Sergey
> >
> >
> >>> Less probable maximas (with a major value
> delta_a) tend to be before
> > June
> >> 23
> >>> (up to several day). However, these fragments
> trails transit far from
> > the
> >>> Earth.
> >>
> >> Do you mean the absolute value of delta_a of the
> cross section on
> >> June 23
> > is
> >> very large?
> >> Later parts of dust trail are corresponding to
> smaller delta_a?
> >>
> >> Clear skies,
> >> Huan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailing list meteorobs
> > meteorobs at meteorobs.org
> >
>
http://lists.meteorobs.org/mailman/listinfo/meteorobs
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:29:43 -0400
> From: Pierre Martin <dob14.5 at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Re: 2004 June Bootids
> To: Global Meteor Observing Forum
> <meteorobs at meteorobs.org>
> Message-ID:
> <03ADF903-B352-11D8-971F-003065B96B00 at sympatico.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed
>
> Thank you Joe. I did read with much interest your
> article for 2004
> June Bootids in Sky & Tel.
>
> However, it appears that your article was written
> before the latest
> particle simulations results by Jeremie Vaubaillon
> and Sergey Shanov.
>
> From their simulation results, it now appears that
> July 23 will at
> least present a more elevated *posibility* of some
> enhanced June
> Bootids (i.e. "the snake can bite the Earth"). From
> this, am I correct
> to assume that the Earth will be located much closer
> near the resonant
> cloud than it was for any other year since 1998?
>
> As for 1992 and 1986, could it be possible that any
> minor June Bootid
> activity went completely unoticed, especially due to
> the short North
> hemisphere nights? Or possibly because of a lack of
> anyone recording
> or plotting activity on these dates?
>
> Thanks and clear skies!
>
> - Pierre
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2004, at 8:11 PM, Skywayinc at aol.com
> wrote:
>
=== message truncated ===
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end
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