(meteorobs) Re: 5th magnitude "ceiling"

[meteorsga at bellsouth.net]

When "R" is finally determined for this particular shower, it's going to prove to be a bright one.  Out of 138 meteors Saturday morning, I had only two (2) magnitude +5 meteors.  I think the underrepresentation Rich is discussing may be an anamoly of this particular, bright shower.  Anyone else with very low numbers of +5's ???

BTW, my LM was +6.5 that morning.

Kim Youmans
> 
> From: FELIX A MARRTINEZ <suejam1 at juno.com>
> Date: 2006/10/24 Tue PM 06:33:16 EDT
> To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
> CC: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
> Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Re: 5th magnitude "ceiling"
> 
> Two of the 21 meteors that I observed on Saturday morning (Oct 20/21)
> here in Central Virginia were 5th magnitude meteors.  My LM was a bit
> better than 6.0 on that morning.    I should have "sucked it up" and
> pressed on, even with a sore back to observe more!  The skies were fairly
> dark and crystal clear!!  Great reports what turns out to be a superb
> Orionid display!!!
>                                                                         
> More Clear Skies & Many Meteors - Felix
> 
> 
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:59:59 -0700 "Robert Lunsford"
> <lunro.imo.usa at cox.net> writes:
> > Rich and All,
> > 
> > I feel it is simply far easier to see a fixed sixth magnitude star 
> > verses a 
> > sixth magnitude meteor zipping along at twenty degrees per second. 
> > The 
> > limiting magnitude estimates are still good indicators of sky 
> > transparency, 
> > which definitely affects the activity ones sees.
> > 
> > Those who report an LM of sixth magnitude and report many sixth 
> > magnitude 
> > meteors are either underestimating their LM or underestimating their 
> > meteor 
> > magnitudes.
> > 
> > I have seen a few sixth magnitude meteors. They are impossible to 
> > see unless 
> > they occur near the center of your field of view. I see many more 
> > fifth 
> > magnitude meteors but they are far more difficult than viewing fifth 
> > 
> > magnitude stars.
> > 
> > I hope this helps!
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Richard Taibi" <rjtaibi at hotmail.com>
> > To: <meteorobs at meteorobs.org>
> > Cc: <lunro.imo.usa at cox.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:28 PM
> > Subject: FW: 5th magnitude "ceiling"
> > 
> > 
> > > Let me complete my thought!  I sent the original message below 
> > when I 
> > > meant to "save draft."
> > >
> > > My point was that inspecting all of the reports observers posted, 
> > and for 
> > > those who reported nearly +7 magnitude skies, no one reported 
> > seeing a 
> > > sixth magnitude meteor.  To be sure, there were many fifth 
> > magnitudes.  It 
> > > strikes me as being odd that there was almost a two-magnitude 
> > margin 
> > > between the faintest observed meteors and the limiting magnitude.
> > >
> > > I wonder what observers think may be happening when they observe?  
> > Do you 
> > > think that our limiting magnitude determination procedures somehow 
> > mislead 
> > > us in terms of faintest meteors we can expect to see?  Is this 
> > explainable 
> > > in terms of acuity in the center of the field of view?  After all, 
> > we find 
> > > limiting magnitude by looking fixedly at star regions. (Perhaps the 
> > best 
> > > predictor of faintest meteor to expect is limiting magnitude "off 
> > axis" 
> > > from our central vision.)  But if this is true, what about deep 
> > sky 
> > > observer's maxim that averted vision shows the faintest objects?  
> > May 
> > > moving light sources, as meteors are, explain some of this "5th 
> > magnitude 
> > > ceiling?"
> > >
> > > Best wishes,  Rich
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "Richard Taibi" <rjtaibi at hotmail.com>
> > >>To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
> > >>Subject: 5th magnitude "ceiling" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:26:24 
> > -0400
> > >>
> > >>I have read with admiration and awe all of you who had clear, 6th 
> > 
> > >>magnitude skies, and many Orionid meteors.  I checked a few of you 
> > who 
> > >>reported skies darker than +6: Bob L., George Gliba, Michel V.,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > 
> > 
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> > 
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