(meteorobs) Wild Animals: Lions & Tigers & Bears Oh My!

Wed Nov 4 14:15:32 EST 2009

It's much different out west than in the glades. I grew up in Florida 
and if you're referring to the Everglades, there are black bears, feral 
hogs, and gators. Puma or cougar (mountain loins out west) have been 
sited in the glades. Though it's rare to see any of them out there, and 
the cougars are arguably the most rare. I would count myself lucky to 
see ont in the glades, though from a distance... ;)

Not that you need to worry, I would cross the glades in a heartbeat 
without toting a can of pepper spray or any weapon other than a knife.

However the outdoors out west is quite different.

;)

Regards,
Eric

jeffrey wilson wrote:
> I was going to observe the Geminids in December but after reading this thread I dont know.
> Pepper spray, stun gun; guns with bullets!  This is starting to sound like a survivalist discussion.  I have observed from the middle of the glades on occasion but did not take a weapon of any type; maybe I should.  Hmmmmm food for thought.  Actually the animals that have given me a hard time (not all of them mind you) stand upright and carry a badge.
> "What are you doing out here at this time of night!"  then you show him your binoculars and other gear just to convince him that your telling the truth.  
>  
> Have you ever heard that sound that a gator makes?  That will make you jump a few feet if you are not used to it.
>  
> Happy observing and look before you shoot anything.
>  
> Jeff Wison
>
> --- On Tue, 11/3/09, Jim <jrosenstock at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jim <jrosenstock at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Wild Animals: Lions & Tigers & Bears Oh My!
> To: "Global Meteor Observing Forum" <meteorobs at meteorobs.org>
> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 7:34 AM
>
>
>
>
> --- In meteorobs at yahoogroups.com, Meteorites USA <eric at ...> wrote:
>   
>> I would agree with Chris that normally we needn't worry about animal 
>> attack. However many of us who do observe meteors and hunt for 
>> meteorites in remote areas and in wilder areas than your neighborhood 
>> suburb need to remember that you're not in your home, and you need to be 
>> aware of your surroundings.
>>
>> I've been an avid camper, outdoorsman, and survivalist since I was a 
>> teenager. My brother and I practically spent our entire childhood 
>> growing up in the sub-tropical wilds of Florida. I've moved out west now 
>> and things are much different here. You still have to watch for snakes 
>> just like in Florida, but you have the added benefit of watching out for 
>> mountain lions, bears, and coyotes.
>>
>> Chris is absolutely right that you needn't /worry/ about attacks, but 
>> you should be /aware/ that they could occur, and take proper precautions 
>> to prevent them from happening. It's all about the numbers really. You 
>> could go out into the wilderness 100 times without incident and be fully 
>> prepared each time. Then one day you leave on a spur of the moment trip 
>> and you don't have all your gear or are unprepared. This is when things 
>> happen.
>>
>> There are three things you need to prepare for and be ready for just in 
>> case:
>>
>> People - Wild people can be a threat to safety and security.
>> Predators - Normally leave you alone, but be prepared with proper 
>> protection and prevention.
>> Poisonous Snakes & Insects - Again be prepared with proper clothing and 
>> footwear.
>>
>> There are some things that can make your life much easier and safer in 
>> the wilderness, and if you are the worrying type, or are safety minded 
>> enough to prepare then perhaps this short list will be something you can 
>> use to provide protection for you and your loved ones in the wild.
>>
>> I've read most of the posts in this thread on this subject and I don't 
>> remember reading about protecting the children many of us have. Children 
>> are small and fast moving, and when in mountain lion country it's wise 
>> to keep them very close by and within sight.
>>
>> Get a concealed carry permit for your state if you would like to carry a 
>> firearm. If you don't know how to use one, there are federally mandated 
>> and sponsored accessible firearms courses and safety courses one can 
>> take as well. The concealed weapons course is also a relatively 
>> inexpensive precaution to take and the law requires it if you carry 
>> concealed at all. It's a felony in most states to carry a concealed 
>> weapon. Be aware of the law!
>>
>> If you don't like firearms, or they scare you which is the case with 
>> many people, there is a non-lethal alternative. I heard stun guns 
>> mentioned once or twice in this thread, and while they are good they 
>> don't work at distance!
>>
>> You must be within arms reach of your attacker whether that be a human 
>> or an animal. (yes there are stun batons but most people won't carry 
>> them) I don't know about you, but I would much rather keep would be 
>> attackers as far away from me and my family as possible. Check your 
>> state laws as many states have banned stun guns from civilian use.
>>
>> A Taser can work well up to 15ft away. It doesn't work the same way as a 
>> stun gun. The Taser sends a high frequency electrical signal that 
>> actually interrupts the signal from the brain to the muscles and sends 
>> the whole body into involuntary convulsions and the attacker becomes 
>> powerless to stop it.
>>
>> The stun gun works on a high voltage low amperage flow of electrical 
>> energy only and is more locationally centered in that it makes the 
>> surrounding muscles spasm. The effects of the stun gun do not last as 
>> long as the Taser and in my opinion does not offer the same level of 
>> protection, though it is effective against human attack, I am unaware of 
>> the effects of a Taser on attacking bears, mountain lions or other 
>> predators. Stun guns also fall into this unknown effectiveness area too 
>> when considering their effects on animals. I would imagine they work, 
>> but I don't want to find out they don't when it's too late.
>>
>> Forget mace. Mace is a breath freshner for large predators and some 
>> people. (personal opinion) Mace works but not nearly as well pepper spray.
>>
>> Pepper Spray (Oleoresin Capsicum or OC Spray: Inflammatory defense 
>> spray) - Pepper spray is cheap, it comes in a variety of types, and it's 
>> a very effective deterrent. Pepper spray effects the respiratory 
>> systems, eyes, nose, throat, and mucous membranes within the nose and 
>> throat. It causes severe pain, irritation and swelling. The effect on 
>> the eyes is one thing, as it temporarily blinds the attacker when they 
>> close their eyes in defense of the spray.It also makes it very hard to 
>> breathe. If animals can't see or breathe they tend not to like that very 
>> much.
>>
>> In addition, animals may also be frightened away by the loud hissing 
>> sound of the spray canister itself. Many smaller prey animals hiss at 
>> attackers and predators when threatened and the pepper sprays sound when 
>> discharged from the canister makes a loud hissing sound. In addition, 
>> many brand of pepper spray have a bright red dye and creates a large 
>> stream of material and a cloud of vapor in the air further adding to the 
>> frightening effect. An illustration of the spray effect is here: 
>> http://www.udap.com/Bearspecifications.htm
>>
>> I was in the security and safety business for about 5 years, during that 
>> time I sold personal protection products and tested ALL of them. Yes 
>> I've been sprayed in the face with pepper spray, and mace, and been 
>> zapped with a stun gun. They all hurt! But pepper spray by far works the 
>> best in my opinion. Animals really don't like it either.
>>
>> Bear spray (also a form of pepper spray) is another: 
>> http://www.udap.com/ This guy actually got attacked by a bear, and 
>> created his own formula of bear spray. Though I'm unfamiliar with it, 
>> and have never tested it, I would probably buy it since I am familiar 
>> with the way pepper spray works. I'm not promoting this guys products, 
>> and I've never tested them, but many others have and it seems like a 
>> good non-lethal safety product.
>>
>> He has a very long list of testimonials on his site from people who say 
>> his product has worked well on many types of animals including moose! A 
>> little known fact is that moose actually kill more people per year than 
>> bears!
>>
>> Bears: http://www.udap.com/testify.htm
>> Other Animal Stories Including a Moose and Mountain Lion, oh and a 
>> Tiger: http://www.udap.com/othertestimonials.htm
>>
>> So to summarize all the choices of protection.
>>
>> Gun - Works well in most scenarios, however limitations are law and 
>> personal preference.
>> Stick - Not discussed but might be somewhat effective.
>> Stun Gun - Limited effectiveness because of the dangerously limited 
>> short range capability. Perhaps it would be best as a last resort 
>> defense weapon.
>> Taser - Keeps human attackers at a distance. Untested on animals?
>> Pepper Spray - Effective on both animals and humans alike. Works well in 
>> many circumstances and scenarios. Cheap and legal in most areas.
>> Knives - Not discussed. Limited effectiveness because of the dangerously 
>> limited short range capability.
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   Chris Peterson wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm outside at night all the time, in an area with cougars, bears, and 
>>> coyotes. I've seen all of them. I don't remotely worry about attacks, which 
>>> are vanishingly rare with any of these. I've never felt it necessary to take 
>>> any special precautions or to arm myself.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> *****************************************
>>> Chris L Peterson
>>> Cloudbait Observatory
>>> http://www.cloudbait.com
>>>    
>>>       
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