(meteorobs) More fireballs with PER than with all other showers?

Sun Jul 28 08:59:41 EDT 2013

Hi,
I’m observing the Perseids since 1978.
A “normal” Perseid maximum shows every year a couple of fireballs. I think only the special occasions such as earth passes throught the “filament structure” or a recent dusttrail, only then the stream is capable to produce more than usual fireballs. I have observed such outbursts in the past, some examples:

11/12-08-1993 ,Europe, a fine long enduring outburst (ZHR 300-350)  with Perseid fireballs up to –6. (source: filament structure).
11/12-08-2004, Europe a short outburst of weak Perseids (1862 dusttrail of Comet Swift-Tuttle, ZHR 210) followed with more than usual bright Perseids (filament structure, ZHR 120)
12/13-08-2008, Europe, an unexpected outburst with a maximum ZHR of 135 with many bright Perseids (I even saw a –10 Perseid). Possible cause: 441 trail of Comet Swift-Tuttle (according to Jeremy Vaubaillon).
12/13-08-2009, Europe, evening outburst of filament structure with some bright Perseid fireballs up to –6.

So, these are my experiences!
best wishes,
Koen

From: Michel Vandeputte 
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:20 PM
To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org 
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) More fireballs with PER than with all other showers?

I agree with Paul. 

Based on 23 years of observing, including almost 10.000 Perseids: 

Perseids are capable to produce some nice and (very) bright fireballs. But I can't speak about a real fireball outburst of this shower.  But in case of some special Perseid returns in the past , there is an enhancement of fireballs (but also in correlation with more shower members);  I think about the 2004 return (Jupiters perturbation on the stream) and 2008 (the Saturn perturbation on the stream). In those years, the earth travelled trough some richer parts of the main stream due to planetary perturbations with direct result:  more meteors and more fireballs, but not a 'fireball outburst'.  
The same case around the return of the mother comet 109/P during the ninties...

In normal years (as this year), we'll see a rather normal Perseïd shower with many weak meteors but also some brighter ones (incl. a couple of fireballs). But you'll never know... that's why we have to observe as many nights around the main maximum....

2016 will be more much interesting thanks to the next Jupiter perturbation...  

Fireball streams?  
-Taurids during the 'Asher years' (last one: 2005)
-some Capricornid or Kappa Cygnids returns...
-Geminids after the main maximum: the fireball window...
-the resonant Leonid outburst in 1998...
-...

Long trains,

Michel Vandeputte

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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 07:57:23 -0400
From: jonesp0854 at gmail.com
To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) More fireballs with PER than with all other showers?

Hi Dan,
    I've been watching the Perseids on and off visually ever since 1974 and I must say that I have never really noticed an overabundance of fireballs from this radiant at all.  At least, not relative to other major showers such as the Leonids and Geminids.   In fact, some years have gone by without me seeing even one fireball from them, even with rates in the 90+ per hour range.  But that's just me, I guess.  Other years, I have seen some nice ones indeed though.  I caught only one Perseid fireball in a good look at the 2012 maximum, for example.
    One thing I will say with assurance however, is that I have never seen the Perseids produce a "fireball shower" year, such as the Leonids and Geminids have upon occasion, although I may have missed one.  Shoot, even the Taurids have years when fireballs are much more common from them than other years.  The Perseids do, however, produce quite a number of bright, showy meteors that might actually be below fireball status, but some inexperienced observers tend to overestimate the magnitudes and call them fireballs when they may not meet the requirement. 
    It would be interesting to hear from other experienced observers on the list of their thoughts on this subject.  Estimating magnitudes of visually  observed meteors tends to be as subjective as color determination sometimes, in my experience (recall the recent discussions regarding "green fireballs" on the list that went on for quite some time).  Video systems would tend to be more accurate, I would think.  Just my "two cents"...;o).

Clear skies to all for the Perseids upcoming, Paul

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 5:04 PM, <dfischer at astro.uni-bonn.de> wrote:

  The statistics reported in
  http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/26jul_perseids
  based on a single fireball camera network should easily be reproduced by
  other video observation networks or even in visual meteor data bases - and
  the claimed overabundance of fireballs with the PER should actually have
  been detected well before if it is as prominent as shown in the history.
  Has it?

  Dan

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