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(meteorobs) Re: meteorobs-digest V3 #245
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all meteor observers
ALEJO ECHAVARRIA & FAMILY
Medellin, COlombia
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorobs-digest <owner-meteorobs-digest@jovian.com>
To: meteorobs-digest@jovian.com <meteorobs-digest@jovian.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 8:27 AM
Subject: meteorobs-digest V3 #245
>
>meteorobs-digest Tuesday, December 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 245
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:30:22 -0500
>From: Rob McNaught <rmn@aaocbn.aaodot gov.au> (via Lew Gramer)
>Subject: (meteorobs) [IMO-News] Re: Variation of leonids maximum
>
>- ------- Forwarded Message
>
>Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:39:47 +1100 (EST)
>From: Rob McNaught <rmn@aaocbn.aaodot gov.au>
>To: imo-news@egroups.com
>Subject: [IMO-News] Re: Variation of leonids maximum
>
>Jean-Christophe,
>I heard mention of the latest IMO results including the correction,
>but these may not have been published. The diagram in the paper you
>mention is solely for the 1999 Leonids. In the last issue of WGN I have a
>more general set of charts for the coming years with an "overlay" that can
>be used on any of these maps to derive the correction from the geocenter.
>
>The correction is mostly of relevance during periods of rapid change in
>rates, as occurred over about a 60 minute period either side of maximum.
>With most observers of the high rates being situated around the
>Mediterranean, the correction is only a few minutes and as luck would have
>it, the correction for the Mediterranean is zero! I know the IMO were
>looking at short term variability in the rates and were applying the
>correction for that analysis.
>
>I hope there are reports from the south of Africa that indicate a well
>defined time of maximum. It should have preceeded the time in the
>Mediterranean by some 10 minutes. Northern Scandanavia would have been
>some 6 minutes later, but I gather it was thick cloud from there.
>
>The reported times should be corrected to the geocenter for
>intercomparison.
>
>Cheers, Rob
>
>Robert H. McNaught
>rmn@aaocbn.aaodot gov.au
>
>On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Jean-Christophe 'Papou' Millot wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> >
>> > It is possible to obtain these papers electronically (as pdf) via the
>> > MAPS website:
>> >
>> > http://www.uarkdot edu/meteor
>> >
>>
>> Very interesting source of information
>> I have just read McNaught and Asher paper on 'Variation of Leonid maximum
>> with location of observer' and I have a question :
>> As I suppose that the preliminary results shown on this list did not take
>> into account these varaitions,
>> are there some 'modified' ZHR curve and peak time results available that
>> include the adjustments suggested by this paper ?
>>
>> Jean-Christophe 'Papou' Millot
>> New Caledonia
>> 22d17mS 166d28E
>>
>>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:28:13 -0500
>From: "Jean-Christophe 'Papou' Millot" <papou@canl.nc> (via Lew Gramer)
>Subject: (meteorobs) [IMO-News] Re: Variation of leonids maximum (was new
Leonid papers)
>
>- ------- Forwarded Message
>
>From: "Jean-Christophe 'Papou' Millot" <papou@canl.nc>
>To: <imo-news@egroups.com>, <papou@canl.nc>
>Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:16:25 +1100
>Subject: [IMO-News] Re: Variation of leonids maximum (was new Leonid
papers)
>
>Hello all,
>>
>> It is possible to obtain these papers electronically (as pdf) via the
>> MAPS website:
>>
>> http://www.uarkdot edu/meteor
>>
>
>Very interesting source of information
>I have just read McNaught and Asher paper on 'Variation of Leonid maximum
>with location of observer' and I have a question :
>As I suppose that the preliminary results shown on this list did not take
>into account these varaitions,
>are there some 'modified' ZHR curve and peak time results available that
>include the adjustments suggested by this paper ?
>
>Jean-Christophe 'Papou' Millot
>New Caledonia
>22d17mS 166d28E
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:35:25 -0500
>From: Lew Gramer <dedalus@latrade.com>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Dedication! (was Re: Geminids 13./14. dec, from MBK,
Slovenia)
>
>>I started at 19:10 UT, ended at 4:50 UT. In 8.86 hrs teff I saw an
>>unprecedented 1117 meteors of which 837 were Geminids.
>
>In preparation for the long "Meteor Winter" here in the Northern
Hemisphere,
>some of us have been picking up on more "advanced" or more theoretical
topics
>of discussion on 'meteorobs'. But rereading Jure A's record of his Geminid
>maximum observations, I had to just stop and give PUBLIC RECOGNITION:
>
>Spending 10 or more hours in the December cold on a weeknight,
painstakingly
>recording complete data on every one of over 1100 meteors, all purely in
the
>interests of amateur science, is something that many "professionals" would
be
>unwilling to do! And this is not to mention the other meteor campaigns Jure
>and his fellow observers in Slovenia completed in 1999...
>
>THANK YOU to Jure, Kim Youmans, Pierre Martin, Bob Lunsford, Mark Davis and
>Cathy Hall, and all our colleagues in Germany, China and around the Globe,
>for your unflagging dedication and hard work in this avocation cum science
>cum passion. May you continue to inspire us in 2000 and beyond...
>
>Clear skies and a warm, Happy Holiday Season everyone,
>
>Lew
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:03:10 -0500
>From: Lew Gramer <dedalus@latrade.com>
>Subject: (meteorobs) LIST ADMIN OUT OF TOWN: 22 Dec - 01 Jan
>
>Tomorrow night once again, I'll be selfishly abandoning my responsibilities
for
>these lists, and frittering my time away with family and friends in
Florida!
>
>Though I do this without shame, I will try to log on from time to time to
check
>that the lists are running smoothly: so if you have ANY problems which our
able
>"List Elves" and "Co-Santas" can't resolve in my absence, PLEASE BE
PATIENT - I
>will resolve them as soon as I can recover from the Egg Nog.
>
>NOTE that the Web sites for unsubscribing are NOT currently working, thanks
to a
>security "fix" at my ISP, TIAC. So if you wish to remove or replace
yourself on
>a list, please follow the explicit instructions for doing so VIA EMAIL.
>
>Clear skies to everyone, and have a wonderful Holiday!
>- --
>Lew Gramer
>owner-meteorobs@jovian.com
>owner-netastrocatalog@jovian.com
>owner-netastrocatalog-announce@jovian.com
>owner-nsaac@jovian.com
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:27:57 EST
>From: YoungBob2@aol.com
>Subject: (meteorobs) Re: meteorobs-digest V3 #243
>
>In a message dated 12/20/1999 2:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>owner-meteorobs-digest@jovian.com writes:
>You wrote:
>
><< As strange and naive as this may sound, I've also seen a
> nebulous meteor - not really a worm meteor, but a meteor
> with a clear central condensation and a coma or an outer
> envelope of some sort. That one was a sporadic grazer 3.
> magnitude that covered some 70 degrees in 4 seconds.
>
> Clear skies!
>
> Jure A. >>
>
>I once was puzzled about nebulous meteors. I had seen
>these but has ignored them thinking that they were eye
>"floaters". Then, one day between planetarium shows
>just out of curiosity I turned the sky way down to a dark
>sky and all lights off, and made sure that the meteor
>project was off, too, let my eyes dark adept and -- Holy
>Cow! I saw them. About 1 every 15 minutes or so, just
>about the frequency I saw them outside. It seemed that
>they were more frequent if I stood up and moved around,
>then sat down and looked up.
>
>The giveaway was that I thought I detected a hint of pink
>to one over to the right. Then I noticed that over to the
>right was the red "exit" light, still on. I turned it off. In
>fact, I then turned off all lights and sat in total darkness
>and saw no "nebulous" meteors.
>
>My conclusion is that these are reflections or refractions
>of starlight or other light in floaters. They took on, for
>me, the forms reported by others: blobs or arcs.
>
>I also have noticed when I do real observing a class of
>very faint (~+6 mag) and very fast and short meteors.
>Since these are often in the periphery, I tended to ignore
>them because I wasn't sure. In the Planetarium I also
>see them, and also in total darkness.
>
>My conclusion was that amorphous meteors are
>related to floaters, while the very dim fast ones are
>related to the eye, perhaps noise. They aren't
>common and the latter are not noticed unless I am
>in really dark skies, <5 mag.
>
>I guess that very few people would be stupid enough
>to try to observe meteors in the planetarium!
>
>Clear skies,
>Bob Young
>State Museum of Pennsylvania
>Planetarium
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:37:46 EST
>From: YoungBob2@aol.com
>Subject: (meteorobs) Nebulous and very dim ~+6 mag meteors
>
>A followup to my recent post.
>
>As the result of my "observations" of these things
>in the Planetarium and the very dim ones in
>total darkness I am suspicious of claims of
>meteors that are <5 mag.
>
>Perhaps observers could go to their local
>planetarium, explain their interest, and request
>some time after or between shows. then, after
>allowing your eyes dark adaptation under a dark
>planetarium sky, try to familiarize themselves
>with these phenomena.
>
>Clear and dark skies,
>Bob Young
>State Museum of Pennsylvania
>Planetarium
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
>http://www.tiacdot net/users/lewkaren/meteorobs/subscribe.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:57:06 -0500
>From: Lew Gramer <dedalus@latrade.com>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) More on LM estimates and sources of error in ZHRs
>
>>I recall, from my early biology classes, that the human dark-adapted
>>retinal rod cells, are extremely efficient in responding to just a few
>>photons to yield a detectable response. If the average rod cells, at
>>their limit, respond to a few photons at mag 6.5, how can a rod cell
>>respond to 1/9 as many photons (which is the luminosity ratio for the
>>8.9-6.5 = 2.4 mag difference here) , because that many photons just are
>>not going to be there ?
>
>Mike, I think it would be difficult to argue that the photons are "not
there"
>based on an a priori assumption that response at 6.5 is "at the limit",
wouldn't
>it? Anyway, I think as George said, we're no longer discussing human
perception
>here: what this sounds far more like is, "*I* have excellent night vision,
and
>*I* have access to excellent dark sites, and *I* have never seen mag 7
stars (or
>mag 8, or what have you) - and therefore, it is impossible...
>
>I hope this won't offend ANYONE, but I am quite clear that I am able to see
>stars fainter than mag 7.5 under appropriate conditions. If that is
something
>specific to my vision (or anyone else's), that's OK - so LONG as I
accurately
>record my conditions, so my meteor (or nova, extragalactic supernova,
variable
>or whatever) data can be reliably corrected for that individual variation.
>
>That's basically the whole gist of Limiting Magnitude: what can THIS
individual
>see, and how will that affect their reported observations...
>
>Take care all,
>Lew
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:44:48 +0100
>From: Martin Galea De Giovanni <martingd@maltanetdot net>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Seasons Greetings
>
>Hi,
>
>Please visit this link to get your virtual Christmas card ......
>www.geocities.com/martingd.geo/christmas.html
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>Martin
>
>Visit the NEW page of the Astronomical Society Of Malta at
>www.geocities.com/maltastro
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
>http://www.tiacdot net/users/lewkaren/meteorobs/subscribe.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:13:43 +0100
>From: "Hans Guenter Koenig, Dr.-Ing." <hans-guenter.koenig@debiteldot net>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Re: WILL WE SEE GEM FIREBALLS TONIGHT?
>
>Sorry Bob,
>
>something happened with this non-ASCII-character i used as a symbol for
>angular degrees. You're right if you read 10degrees per second instead of
>100/s.
>
>Now three questions to the list (all refered to the geminid fireball
below):
>
>1) Its path can be divided into three distinguishable parts:
>~ 15 angular degrees as a orange-white +/-0m Object with orange trail
>partially seems to be a hollow "tube"
>~ 10 angular degrees forming a blue-white ball leaving the visible trail
>behind
>~ 5 degrees as a blue-white ball with an elliptical shape and an
>orange-white halo leaving many orange-red pointlike fragments ("tears" from
>its melting surface?). No visible trail or train.
>
>How common is a hollow trail and is this phenomenon correlated with the
size
>of the meteor? How can such a sharp onset of the "blue light" be explained
>(density of the air, density of the meteoroid, chemical composition etc.)?
>
>2) What happened to the "tears" of such a fireball? The orange-red small
>fragments behind the leading body seems to be stopped in the moment of
>separation and left behind with no residual speed. Also, the red colour
>indicate a low temperature - allows to withstand any further burn out or
>desintegration. May those molten "droblets" fall as globular shaped grains
>sized
>some mm or inches?
>
>The last question for observers in germany:
>
>3) The geminid fireball appeared ~25 degrees above the horizont. If this
>object dived into the 30-40km region, one can estimate the distance to
>65..85km. I think i've heard two double booms separated by ~10sec approx. 6
>min after the event - but this is not confirmed by my co-observer. If so,
>the distance of the source was up to 120km in sky and 85km on ground level.
>In this case, the zenital brightness was -11m or more. The fireball ends
>nearly exact in
>N (seen from Georgenhausen), so it stopped possibly over the "Vogelsberg"
>area. Is there anyone who can confirm my observation (14.12.1999; 2058UT)?
>I'm shure the object was bright enough to lit up the sky with this damned
>clouds too.
>
>Clear skies and many fireballs,
>
>Hans Guenter
>
>
>- ----- Original Message -----
>From: Robert Lunsford <lunro.imo.usa@prodigydot net>
>To: <meteorobs@jovian.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:12 AM
>Subject: (meteorobs) Re: WILL WE SEE GEM FIREBALLS TONIGHT?
>
>
>> Now that's one FAST meteor considering the maximum possible angular
>> velocity is 38 degrees per second!
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> "Hans Guenter Koenig (via Lew Gramer)" wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi observers,
>> >
>> > Ok! One was seen: 2058 UT, -8m estimated from D64354Reinheim
>> > (8048'14''E; 49050'50'') in NNO direction.
>> > Bright blue with a yellow train and many small red fragments - left
>behind
>> > in its last second. Duration approx. 2.5s; angular speed ~100/s.
>> > Unfortunately we're now totally clouded out.
>> >
>> > Clear skies!
>> >
>> > Hans Guenter
>
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:20:33 -0800
>From: Robert Gardner <rendrag@earthlinkdot net>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Fireballs, dark flight and meteorites (was
Re:Bolide booms)
>
>You have my curiosity up. I never use all caps but I don't really see
anything
>wrong with it. I once studied sign art and it was pointed out there that
having
>two cases of lettering was really unnecessary. Is there something special
about
>using it on the internet. Robert Gardner
>
>Iansplanet@aol.com wrote:
>
>> To all of you polite enough to tell me what typing in all caps means on
the
>> Internet,
>> thanks. To those of you so anal that all you could do was "flame" me by
>> writing some obtuse message about all caps with no explanation--get a
life. I
>> appreciate civility in all areas of life, including the developing
culture of
>> web interaction. I dislike, however, being lectured or corrected by
>> obsessive-compulsives who lack a corresponding set of manners and whose
>> postings represent nothing more than hypocrisy. After reading today some
>> messages about another who was flamed by one in this list, and recalling
that
>> I was attacked a while ago because some reader assumed that I, being from
a
>> Midwestern State rather than either coast, was an uneducated redneck, I
begin
>> to wonder if the joy and educational value of reading other letters about
>> meteors is worth it. So to all those (but notably not the one person whom
I
>> wrote and asked the question) whose visual hearing I blasted, I apologize
and
>>
>> IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
>>
>> Johnie
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:31:09 -0500
>From: "Kim S. Youmans" <ksyo@pinelanddot net>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Trains and Magnitudes
>
>Hi Wayne!
> Are you still laid "back?"
> I believe you hit the nail squarely on the head!
>
>Wayne T Hally wrote:
>
>> Kim,
>> I think you may be confusing trains with color. Most people
cannot
>> perceive color in meteors fainter than 2nd magnitude, due to cones (the
>> color perceptors) being less sensitive to light. Trains are derived from
>> speed and material, so there is no real cutoff, although as Bob said, it
is
>> more difficult to see fainter trains.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>> ----------
>> From: Kim S. Youmans[SMTP:ksyo@pinelanddot net]
>> Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 6:08 AM
>> To: Meteorobs
>> Subject: (meteorobs) Trains and Magnitudes
>>
>> The Geminids relative lack of trains brought back a recurring
>> question that has come up occasionally while observing -- what is the
>> limiting magnitude for trains? It *seems* I recall a posting in which
>> it was stated that +2 was the lower limit, but my observations haven't
>> born that out, so my memory must be off...either that or my magnitude
>> "calibration." I'm certain I've seen a good many +3's over the past few
>> months with nice trains -- and of course, that's how they were
>> recorded. I thought I'd post this to the list rather than ask someone
>> privately since I'm sure some other new observers out there have
>> probably been wondering the same thing!
>> Kim Youmans
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>>
>> Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>> WINMAIL.DAT Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>> Encoding: x-uuencode
>>
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>
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:28:23 -0500
>From: "Kim S. Youmans" <ksyo@pinelanddot net>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Re: meteorobs-digest V3 #243
>
> Bob Young could well be onto something, but I am personally not
>convinced.
>I have floaters, they are darn aggravating at times, but when is the one
>time I am not bothered by them?...when I am observing, i.e., staring at
>a dark, but not truely black sky.
> I can only speak for myself. My floaters are not black. They are
>a light semi-transparent gray. And no matter how fast I jiggle my
>eyes, I can't make them move at meteoric speed --well, maybe a slow
>meteor!
> As I've mentioned earlier this year, I have only seen black meteors
>when I was really fatigued. I saw them after the second all-nighter of
>the '98 Leonids, one or two, anyway. I have been careful this year to
>get naps before I go out, and after over 200 hrs logged this year, not a
>single dark meteor has been observed.
> As for watching meteors in a planterium, just let it stay cloudy
>here long enough...I'd probably be dying to join you, Bob!
>Kim Youmans
>
>YoungBob2@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 12/20/1999 2:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> owner-meteorobs-digest@jovian.com writes:
>> You wrote:
>>
>> << As strange and naive as this may sound, I've also seen a
>> nebulous meteor - not really a worm meteor, but a meteor
>> with a clear central condensation and a coma or an outer
>> envelope of some sort. That one was a sporadic grazer 3.
>> magnitude that covered some 70 degrees in 4 seconds.
>>
>> Clear skies!
>>
>> Jure A. >>
>>
>> I once was puzzled about nebulous meteors. I had seen
>> these but has ignored them thinking that they were eye
>> "floaters". Then, one day between planetarium shows
>> just out of curiosity I turned the sky way down to a dark
>> sky and all lights off, and made sure that the meteor
>> project was off, too, let my eyes dark adept and -- Holy
>> Cow! I saw them. About 1 every 15 minutes or so, just
>> about the frequency I saw them outside. It seemed that
>> they were more frequent if I stood up and moved around,
>> then sat down and looked up.
>>
>> The giveaway was that I thought I detected a hint of pink
>> to one over to the right. Then I noticed that over to the
>> right was the red "exit" light, still on. I turned it off. In
>> fact, I then turned off all lights and sat in total darkness
>> and saw no "nebulous" meteors.
>>
>> My conclusion is that these are reflections or refractions
>> of starlight or other light in floaters. They took on, for
>> me, the forms reported by others: blobs or arcs.
>>
>> I also have noticed when I do real observing a class of
>> very faint (~+6 mag) and very fast and short meteors.
>> Since these are often in the periphery, I tended to ignore
>> them because I wasn't sure. In the Planetarium I also
>> see them, and also in total darkness.
>>
>> My conclusion was that amorphous meteors are
>> related to floaters, while the very dim fast ones are
>> related to the eye, perhaps noise. They aren't
>> common and the latter are not noticed unless I am
>> in really dark skies, <5 mag.
>>
>> I guess that very few people would be stupid enough
>> to try to observe meteors in the planetarium!
>>
>> Clear skies,
>> Bob Young
>> State Museum of Pennsylvania
>> Planetarium
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>
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:48:52 -0500
>From: Debbie Kinloch and Mike Csorbay <parrotfarm@on.aibn.com>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Seasons Greetings
>
>Martin:
>
> Very nice!! Way cool!! I like your choice of music too... thanks
>for the virtual Christmas card, and all the best wishes of the season to
>you and yours....
>
> Mike Csorbay & Debbie Kinloch
> York, Ontario, CANADA.
>
>Martin Galea De Giovanni wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Please visit this link to get your virtual Christmas card ......
>> www.geocities.com/martingd.geo/christmas.html
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Martin
>>
>> Visit the NEW page of the Astronomical Society Of Malta at
>> www.geocities.com/maltastro
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:51:23 EST
>From: JosieCaat@aol.com
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Seasons Greetings
>
>Thanks Martin, that was a wonderful card. A Very Merry Christmas and Happy
>New Year to you too :)
>
>Josie
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:20:22 -0500
>From: "Kim S. Youmans" <ksyo@pinelanddot net>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Holiday Thanks to....
>
> I have been planning a note of thanks to post for several
>days now, and with Lew's words of praise, I am thus spurred to action!
> Many folks have been quite generous with their time, and
>exceedingly patient with me over the course of the last ten months! I
>understand their interest is in meteorics, not me, but they realized
>that by being good to me, I might be good to their hobby, and/or
>profession. I hope I have at least in some small way fulfilled my end
>of that tacit agreement.
> First off, if Rainer Arlt had not been willing to use my
>VERY terse Leonid observations last year for the preliminary profile, I
>wouldn't be keying this in right now. Thanks, Rainer, for unwittingly
>planting a seed that is now beginning to mature.
> The next person to have to endure my seemingly endless
>questions was Mark Davis. It was he who actually began my training,
>and it was he who put up with some pretty "weak" reports for many, many
>weeks.
> Now, like many others, I naturally gravitated to those I
>felt seemed to be the best, so I began pestering Bob Lunsford pretty
>regularly on the Saturaday chat sessions. Wayne Halley was a huge help
>when Bob wasn't around, with occasional advice from Norman McCloud III,
>who also from time time pointed out ways I could improve my reports over
>the mail list -- thanks, Norman, that's the MAIN reason I was posting!
> George Gliba, Jim Richardson, Cathy Hall, and Mark
>(especially Mark) have all made my head swell at some time or another
>this year, be it in "Nebula," NamnNotes, the AMS Website, or in Meteor
>Trails!
> I have far less mental ambiguity about the Leonid meteor stream
>because Joe Rao and Rob McNaught found the time to answer my silly
>questions on the list!
> Lew Gramer pumped up my enthusiasm on several occasions! And,
>of course, we ALL need to thank him for his time and expense with this
>list. Thanks, MAmeteors!
> There were many others who simply showered me with accolades --
>premier among them Paul Jones, who may or may not join me at my site for
>the peak of the Quads this year...where are you now, Paul?
>
>Thank you all, Happy Holidays!
>Kim Youmans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:18:54 -0500
>From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." <jshaffer@uplinkdot net>
>Subject: (meteorobs) curving meteors?
>
>A friend has a picture of a Leonid that shows a definite curve at the end
of its
>flight. This doesn't appear to be a drifting train, because the exposure
wasn't
>that long and only one small part of it was curved. Is there any good
>explanation for this? The only thing that comes to my mind is that perhaps
the
>meteoroid was burning asymmetricly and this altered its aerodynamics, but
I'm
>unsure whether the average meteoroid is big enough to show any aerodynamic
>effects.
>
>- --
>Jim Shaffer, Jr.; http://woodstock.uplinkdot net/~jshaffer
>"Q: How do you conclude a formal business letter to a cable company?
> A: 'I spit on your billing department.'"
>- -Dave Barry, 12/5/99
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:07:16 -0800
>From: M Linnolt <mensa@freewwweb.com>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) curving meteors?
>
>Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote:
>>
>> A friend has a picture of a Leonid that shows a definite curve at the end
of its
>> flight. This doesn't appear to be a drifting train, because the exposure
wasn't
>> that long and only one small part of it was curved. Is there any good
>> explanation for this? The only thing that comes to my mind is that
perhaps the
>> meteoroid was burning asymmetricly and this altered its aerodynamics, but
I'm
>> unsure whether the average meteoroid is big enough to show any
aerodynamic
>> effects.
>
>Without seeing the photo, I cannot say for certain, but depending on the
>amount of curvature in the trail, I would be suspicious of the camera
>lens. Many lenses, especially the wide angle, or lower quality ones, can
>have significant amounts of "barrel" or "pincushion" distortion, which
>will curve any straight line. This effect is most pronounced if the
>meteor trail crosses perpendicular to a radial, and is near the edge of
>the frame.
>
>Mike Linnolt
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:44:31 -0800
>From: M Linnolt <mensa@freewwweb.com>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) More on LM estimates and sources of error in ZHRs
>
>Lew Gramer wrote:
>>
>> >I recall, from my early biology classes, that the human dark-adapted
>> >retinal rod cells, are extremely efficient in responding to just a few
>> >photons to yield a detectable response. If the average rod cells, at
>> >their limit, respond to a few photons at mag 6.5, how can a rod cell
>> >respond to 1/9 as many photons (which is the luminosity ratio for the
>> >8.9-6.5 = 2.4 mag difference here) , because that many photons just are
>> >not going to be there ?
>>
>> Mike, I think it would be difficult to argue that the photons are "not
there"
>> based on an a priori assumption that response at 6.5 is "at the limit",
wouldn't
>> it?
>
>Not really. If I recall my biology lecture correctly, it takes a few,
>(maybe 1,2 or 3)? photons to register the minimal detectable signal on a
>rod cell. Now, since a 6.5 star (barely detectable for the average eye)
>would be sending just a few photons to the rod cell, my point is, how
>could an 8.9 mag star be detectable if it sends only (few)/9 ~ (1 or
>3)/9 = 1/9 or 1/3 photon? That seems to be below the threshold of
>response.
>
>>Anyway, I think as George said, we're no longer discussing human
>perception
>> here: what this sounds far more like is, "*I* have excellent night
vision, and
>> *I* have access to excellent dark sites, and *I* have never seen mag 7
stars (or
>> mag 8, or what have you) - and therefore, it is impossible...
>
>Not at all. I was analyzing the claim of an 8.9 limiting magnitude,
>which is an order of magnitude fainter than what is generally the
>average limit for most people. I believe people with particularly good
>night vision can break 7.0, certainly.
>
>> I hope this won't offend ANYONE, but I am quite clear that I am able to
see
>> stars fainter than mag 7.5 under appropriate conditions. If that is
something
>> specific to my vision (or anyone else's), that's OK - so LONG as I
accurately
>> record my conditions, so my meteor (or nova, extragalactic supernova,
variable
>> or whatever) data can be reliably corrected for that individual
variation.
>>
>> That's basically the whole gist of Limiting Magnitude: what can THIS
individual
>> see, and how will that affect their reported observations...
>>
>
>I was attempting to analyze this from a physiological point of view, and
>trying to show that the extreme limiting magnitudes reported before, may
>not be physically possible? I agree that individual perceptions will
>vary, and that the people who can see mag 7.0+ likely have a good
>combination of extra sensitive rods and larger than normal pupils. But I
>don't believe a human could detect mag 8.9, an order of magnitude
>fainter than the normal limit, which is why I wanted to study the
>"double-blind" studies in detail.
>
>Mike.
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:06:15 +1100 (EST)
>From: Rob McNaught <rmn@aaocbn.aaodot gov.au>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Columbian UFO and re-entry over NSW
>
>Australian Channel 10 news this evening showed images of a UFO that was
>"baffling experts". "It wasn't on radar, but it was clearly of a fast
>moving, very hot object beltching fumes", or some such words.
>
>The video shows a "comet-like object" in the bright twilight basically
>stationary with respect to the clouds: obviously an aircraft contrail.
>In case someone comes back with "but it wasn't on radar", my reply would
>be that the scheduled flights (of which this was no doubt one) would have
>been on radar, but that nothing else unusual was.
>
>When I got back from my travels last week, there were a host of UFO and
>meteorite reports awaiting me. My initial reaction to the meteorite
>reports has to be "Why is there almost never a 'normal' meteorite fall in
>Australia?". They seem to have a remarkable fondness for smashing windows
>and falling without any fireball or sonics. The Guyra dam mystery is
>perhaps the only one that might pan out, but even there, there are no
>credible reports of a fireball.
>
>The best observed event was of a bright slow moving object with a tail
>preceeded by three smaller objects over central NSW on Nov 23 at 10:21 UT.
>It sounded like a re-entry, so I contacted Tony Beresford who has shown
>that this was the re-entry of GPS 2-14 r2 (92039C = cat# 22016). It was
>considerably brighter than Venus and some previously unrelated reports
>from South Australia in the bright twilight show that the path would have
>been some 1000km long. It "extinguished" over eastern NSW and sonic booms
>were heard from Bathurst. Video was taken from WIN TV in Dubbo. I'm
>following these up to derive the height and get some idea of the "strewn
>field" for fragments.
>
>Cheers, Rob
>
>Robert H. McNaught
>rmn@aaocbn.aaodot gov.au
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:33:23 GMT
>From: Nick Martin <bonnyton@ednet.codot uk>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Re: Nebulous, different from diffuse meteors?
>
>At 12:18 PM 12/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>Folks, just as a follow-up, BOTH nebulous meteors and "wiggly" meteors -
and
>
>>o Nebulous meteors - which may be seen several times a year - are probably
seen
>>through thin, otherwise unnoticeable cloud layers. But note that during
the
>1998
>>Leonid peak (the "fireball shower" of 1998), I saw something quite
different
>>which also fits Jure's description of "a clear central condensation and a
coma
>>or an outer envelope of some sort". Several fireballs during that
incredible
>>night were NOT nebulous - they had distinct, sharp edges. Yet the heads of
>these
>>meteors displayed clear comae (sometimes "annular", with central darker
areas),
>>surrounding a more intense, "meteor-like" inner head. This shower was seen
>>through mostly cloudy conditions for me, however - so maybe the
traditional
>>explanation still applies to my "different" nebulous meteors?
>
>This sounds like it could be a diffraction ring, caused by light scattered
>by the cloud, around the bright head. Looking at street lights through a
>misted window shows similar rings.
>Such objects are very different from the two diffuse objects I have
reported
>which lacked the bright centre and were of uniform brightness. The red
>Geminid showed a very different colour from other Geminids again not
>explicable in terms of diffusion by cloud. The other had a greenish colour
>but this is not as distinctive with a relatively dim object. However the
>stars along the meteors path were quite clear, sharp and undimmed.
>Nick Martin, Bonnyton House, By Ayr, Ayrshire KA6 7EW ,Scotland, UK.
> Latitude 55 24'56" Longtitude 4 26' 00".
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 04:25:11 -0800 (PST)
>From: Asaf Shtull-Trauring <asafmail@yahoo.com>
>Subject: (meteorobs) Recording storms
>
>> I wonder how it would be to observe leonidas at ZHR
>> 3000! TAPERECORDER
>> RULZ!
>
>Well, there was a certain point in the meteor shower,
>where we saw lke 4 meteors per second, and once or
>twice even more than 8! Who has time for taperecorders
>when viewing such an incredible thing!
>__________________________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 04:28:37 -0800 (PST)
>From: Asaf Shtull-Trauring <asafmail@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Geminids mini storm from MBK 13/14.12.1999
>
>> > Very interesting. 10 meteors per minute.
>> You sound a bit sceptic. It really is a lot of
>> meteors for
>> Geminids, but they were there. I saw them. Btw.
>> who are you to complain?!?! You saw 100 per minute!!
>> :)
>
>didn't mean to be skeptic. Maybe I needed to add some
>'!!!!' in the ened my message hehehe... ;-)
>
>In the highest pount of leonids, we saw more than 100
>meteor per second. my highest observation was one
>minute of like 2-3 per second. This is of course an
>estiate (try to record THAT!).
>
>Thanks, Asaf.
>__________________________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>End of meteorobs-digest V3 #245
>*******************************
>
>
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