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Re: (meteorobs) Microscopic shuttle debris



In a message dated 2/3/2003 4:04:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, tkreyche@well.com writes:


Subj:RE: (meteorobs) Microscopic shuttle debris
Date:2/3/2003 4:04:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:tkreyche@well.com
Reply-to:meteorobs@atmob.org
To:meteorobs@atmob.org
CC:cferriday@adelphiadot net
Sent from the Internet

He's talking about documented evidence. There are certainly cases where people go to hospitals because they've been alarmed by scare tactics propagated by the news media, they got the flu and started feeling nauseous and thought they might be poisoned, they swallowed some gas they were siphoning out of a tractor, have breathing phobias, they're trying to scam some kind of disability payments or whatever. There is no doubt that the shuttle was carrying toxic substances and that some of this made it earth and it may have sickened some people. But I'd bet that non-associated circumstances outweigh actual shuttle related problems 1000:1.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-meteorobs@atmob.org [mailto:owner-meteorobs@atmob.org] On Behalf Of CHRISTINECissy@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:47 PM
To: meteorobs@atmob.org
Cc: cferriday@adelphiadot net
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Microscopic shuttle debris



In a message dated 2/2/2003 7:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, cferriday@adelphiadot net writes:

Christine, can you supply any references on the fact that

"so many have been sickened by coming in contact...."
I've not heard, nor seen, any documented reference to
sickness

thanks
chuck ferriday


    Dear TK:

   It is well known that hospital records are confidential unless some "greater

authority" decides to subpoena them for the greater good.

On CNN last evening it was on the news that there were people who had symptoms of respiratory distress who had touched Columbia shuttle debris, and had gone to the emergency room before being told by the media that respiratory distress was one of the possible side effects.

I don't see what the debate is.  If someone wants documented evidence then you are going to have to either go down to TX/LA yourselves and interrogate the hospitals or interview personally those admitted themselves to the hospitals after coming in contact with Columbia debris, or wait for CNN to report it.

It is kind of like playing Russian Roulette, don't you think?  The cold hard facts are right in front of you, as they are related to chemicals may have contaminated some of the debris.  It clearly states the risk of coming in contact with those chemicals, up to and including death, in some cases severe symptoms occurring in days after contact is made, and then NASA says it is too late, there can be no treatment at that point, because too much damage is done to the internal organs.

So, is it worth it to throw caution to the wind; and say because I cannot gain access to medical data and personal medical records that it is worth the extreme health risk to each one of us, to do microanalysis on debris that only NASA and the independent investigation party has any business in doing?

I would not want to be that one in a thousand that you quote, who finds out that it is not a phobia, the flu or in their mind because of a so called scare tactic.  IF just one individual dies from coming into contact with the Columbia Shuttle debris, especially when dealing with micro-particle analysis, which is more easily breathed in, then that is one more unnecessary death to this whole tragedy.

So the individual must weigh the risks and make the decision themselves.  But making light of it and guessing at the reasons those persons were admitted to the emergency room is not the answer
.



Chuck,

It has been all over CNN and Fox news.  Approximately 70 people who have come in contact with debris from the shuttle have sought care from area hospitals, some of which have complained of respiratory distress.


From:http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/02/sprj.colu.toxicdot debris/index.html
CNN SPECIAL REPORT 
Sunday, February 2, 2003
    Posted: 10:54 PM EST (0354 GMT)
  
Sunday, February 2, 2003 Posted: 10:54 PM EST (0354 GMT)
   
Four compounds from shuttle can harm on contact

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Four compounds used on the space shuttle Columbia could pose an immediate hazard to people on the ground, a NASA spokeswoman said Sunday.

The deadliest chemical of the four would not provide any warning to someone who touched it, according to toxicology databases.

The compounds are: two forms of hydrazine, nitrogen tetroxide and a pure form of ammonia. Raw hydrazine fueled the shuttle's auxiliary power units, which generated hydraulic pressure for various functions in the shuttle. Another form of the chemical, monomethyl hydrazine, fueled the shuttle's maneuvering systems while it was in space, said Randy Azera, a former NASA engineer and consultant to CNN.

Both forms of hydrazine are clear, flammable liquids. They can irritate the eyes, skin and respiratory system and cause vomiting, diarrhea, tremors, convulsions and permanent damage to internal organs. They are considered "immediately dangerous to life" at a concentration of 50 parts per million. They are not considered to have warning signs of contact but can be detected in the blood of an exposed person.

Anyone who suspects contact with the chemicals is urged to seek medical help.

Flushing with water for at least 15 minutes is recommended after suspected contact.

Nitrogen tetroxide and monomethyl hydrazine are "hypergolic" propellants, meaning they ignite spontaneously when they come in contact with each other, a useful property for maneuvering systems. Nitrogen tetroxide is a reddish-brown gas at room temperature and has a "pungent, sweetish" smell, according to experts. It can injure the eyes and skin on contact, and, if inhaled, can damage the lungs. A single exposure can prove fatal, but only high concentrations produce immediate symptoms.

Warning signs of contact might not appear for hours after exposure, and extreme symptoms might not show up for days, so a victim might be unaware he or she has been exposed until it is too late for treatment.

People who suspect contact with the chemical are urged to flush their body and clothes with large amounts of water, and, if necessary, remove their clothing and bathe with soap and water at least 15 minutes. Eyes should be held open and flushed with water for at least as long. People who suspect contact should be taken to a hospital or doctor as soon as possible.

Pure ammonia is a clear liquid at normal temperatures with a pungent smell. It was used as a coolant to remove heat from the electrical systems on the orbiter engines. It can blister a person's lungs if it is inhaled and can cause death in high concentrations.

TO REPORT DEBRIS

NASA urges people not to go near debris from Columbia because it could contain toxic substances. People who find debris are asked to call (281) 483-3388. NASA has also set up a Web site  to collect information that may be helpful in the investigation of the shuttle disaster.


----- Original Message -----
From: CHRISTINECissy@aol.com
To: meteorobs@atmob.org
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) Microscopic shuttle debris


Thank you Thomas for sharing that thought with us.  It had not occurred to me. What interesting data could one culminate from this with reference to the accident?

In the quest for knowledge, to exercise the utmost caution when doing so is of paramount importance as we do not know of what potentially toxic substances these micro-particles of the shuttle may be contaminated with and so many have been sickened by coming in contact with larger pieces of debris.

Chris 






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