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Re: (meteorobs) distance from central vision



Lew and all,

         I believe I know what you mean by adding experience into the
equation.  I never saw as few meteors as I did when I first started "formal"
observing in March '99.  My first several nights yielded on average only
about three or four meteors per 1-hour teff.  Granted, this was not the best
time of year to be out, but one year later I was generally seeing 9 & 10 per
hour on approximately the same dates.  Not since those early days have I had
rates so low -- though I do recall a night or two in the fall of '99 that
yielded rates of maybe five or six at best.  When I hear newcomers on the
list complain that they aren't seeing anything, well,... I can believe it.
      I think I have darn good peripheral vision and a good ability to
detect motion.  Bright stars just beyond my FOV that scintillate or *move*
through tree limbs drive me crazy.  My weakness is in my LM; I doubt I'll
ever get above +6.7 --  probably stared into one too many bright lights over
the years.
     It would be nice to observe with someone like Bill Gates on a night
when I'm constantly seeing those darn faint flashes, they could potentially
verify what I'm seeing or what I think I'm seeing.

Kim Y.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lew Gramer" <lew@upstreamdot net>
To: "meteorobs" <meteorobs@meteorobs.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) distance from central vision


> Norman, I hope you correct my memory below, if it leads me astray?
>
> Joe, interestingly Norm himself is able to see many of those things
> you mention Dr. Seltzer being able to see! :)
>
> I have pretty good faint-light perception (Norm and I have had comp-
> arable LMs when we observe together). But where my perceptions diver-
> ges from Norm's is in resolution, and peripheral vision: Norm, with
> those fine horn rims of his, achieves extraordinary resolution, but
> relatively poor peripheral vision. As an example, I never reliably
> split Epsilon Lyrae 1 and 2 naked-eye, whereas I have heard Norman
> describe them as "easy". On the other hand, when we observe meteors
> under similar conditions and we both note DCVs, Norm's may average
> under 10 degrees, while my average is generally above 20 degrees.
>
> As a result, my LM-adjusted Sporadic rates are often a bit higher
> than (maybe 1.2 or 1.3 times?) Norman's, on the same night.
>
>
> Clearly, there is quite a bit of complexity in the question of indi-
> vidual perception - and likely, room for more research in it also!
>
> One thing which was noted by several posters in past discussions on
> 'meteorobs' about this topic, for example - is that perceptions for
> some people (particularly those with less experience or less freq-
> uent practice) will probably VARY during the course of a night. As
> a corollary, then, perceptions will inevitably change over time, as
> a person gains more experience (or brushes up their skills again) -
> but also as they age, and as their physical condition changes.
>
>
> Does all this mean that visual observations are not reliable? No,
> I don't believe it does - but it does mean that analyzing visual
> observations requires a LOT of data, to find all the statistical
> patterns lurking therein, and adjust for them where possible.
>
> And it also means that honest, careful observation is absolutely
> essential: there is already so much variability in human visual
> perception, that we have to constantly strive to eliminate what-
> ever variables we CAN consciously eliminate...
>
>
> Clear skies for the Geminids, all!
>
> Lew Gramer
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:26:06 EST
> > From: Skywayinc@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: (meteorobs) RE: distance from central vision
> >
> > In a message dated 12/11/03 10:43:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jonesp0854@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > << We had a few "lulus" pass
> >  through the ACAC in those early years who also would make outrageous
claims
> >  of seeing high meteor totals.  It soon became obvious, however, who was
> >  reliable and who wasn't. >>
> >
> >     The former Education Director at New York's Hayden Planetarium,
Allen
> > Seltzer, used to claim that he had exceptional vision . . . once
> > stating that he could readily discern the crescent of Venus and the
Moons
> > of Jupiter with his unaided eye, as well as being able to see down to
> > nearly 8th magnitude!
>
>
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