Eric; Here is an observation I made with a 13" f/5.6 Newtonian on a night I rated 7 out of 10 for seeing and transparency: NGC 6991 Pretty faint, pretty small, not rich, not compressed, 14 stars resolved at 135X. Hope that helps; Steve Coe P.S. BTW, if anyone is looking for a scope, I have a 10" f/6 Newtonian on a study German Equatorial Mount for sale, $1400. E-mail: scoeandlross@sprintmail.com