[Prev][Next][Index][Thread]
(meteorobs) Re: The constellation "Jaguar", anyone?
"E.P. Grondine" is not a subscriber to meteorobs, so
make sure you include his email address:
<epgrondine@yahoo.com>
should you reply.
--- "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine@yahoo.com> wrote:
Anybody here have any idea what the constellation
"Jaguar" is or was for these people?
Best wishes -
EP
> --- "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> My thanks to everyone for their responses so
far.
>
> Continuing with the discussion, at the bottom of
> this message there are all the extracts from Metraux
> made by Bob Kobres, which is all I have available to
> me.
>
> We now have 2 suspect impactors in the area, Rio
> Cuarto and Campo de Cielo. Rio Cuarto was certainly
> fatal, as the myths assembled by Masse, which extend
> up into Brazil, show that the thermal dump from its
> entry set the ground underneath on fire. (We see the
> same kind of fatalities from fire caused by impactor
> entry at Mohenjo Daro in India.)
> It is not known if Campo de Cielo was fatal, as
> the South-AmInd (South American Indian) myths from
> the Chaco area mention the use of guns. They also
> speak of 3 times the Earth was set on fire (see
> below). An immediate question is "Was there a third
> impact event, a fatal one, in the area? Could it
> be that as well as Rio Cuarto and Campo de Cielo,
> we are looking at a Tunguska type blast as well,
> one where the fires where not immediately
> extinguished by winds coming from the blast?
>
> From what I can make of the myths, it looks like
> Chaco area South AmInds viewed lunar eclipses as
> battles between the Moon and a "celestial Jaguar",
> and that they were counting lunar eclipses.
> (Anyone know more about the "celestial Jaguar"?
> Dates for lunar eclipses extending back to say
> ca. 2,150 BCE?)
> For some reason, the local people had a ritual in
> place for observing lunar eclipses at the time of
> origin of these 2 fire stories. The "guns" may be
> a later addition to the ritual, and thus to the
> stories, or they may not be. If colonial records do
> not record
> an impact, then probably we are looking at a later
> addition, but who knows? - The only way this could
> be solved is by a complete search through colonial
> records for a Tunguska type impact event and I
myself
> don't have money enough to finance one, and that's
> one fact that is completely certain.
>
> When the Earth encountered a stream of fragments,
> there would be impacts on the Moon, and these were
> also interpreted as attacks by the
> "celestial Jaguar" on the Moon.
> Occasionally pieces of Moon would break
> off during these battles, and they would become
> meteors [not distinguished from meteorites] which
> upon 3 occurences set the earth on fire.
>
> In closing, let me raise another question: "If
> you can prove that the Campo de Cielo impact killed
> people, would fragments of it go up in price?"
>
> Best wishes to all -
> EP
>
> >
> > MYTHS OF THE TOBA AND PILAGA INDIANS OF THE GRAN
> > CHACO
> > By ALFRED METRAUX
> > PHILADELPHIA AMERICAN FOLKLORE SOCIETY 1946
> >
> > THE GREAT FIRE
> >
> > The people were all sound asleep. It was midnight
> > when an Indian noticed that the moon was taking on
> > a reddish hue. He awoke the others, "The moon is
> about
> > to be eaten by an animal." The animals preying on
> > the
> > moon were jaguars, but these jaguars were spirits
> of
> > the dead. The people shouted and yelled. They beat
> > their wooden mortars like drums, they thrashed
> > their dogs and some shot at random with their
guns.
> > were making as much noise as they could to scare
> > the jaguars and force them to let go their prey.
> >
> > Fragments of the moon fell down upon the earth and
> > started a big fire. From these fragments the
entire
> > earth caught on fire. The fire was so large that
> > people could not escape. Men and women ran to the
> > lagoons covered with bulrushes. Those who were
late
> > were overtaken by the fire. The water was boiling,
> > but not where the bulrushes grew. Those who were
in
> > places
> > not covered with bulrushes died and there most of
> > those
> > people were burnt alive. After everything had been
> > destroyed the fire stopped. Decayed corpses of
> > children floated on the water. A big wind and
rain
> > storm broke out. The dead were changed into birds.
> > The large birds came out from corpses of adults
and
> > small ones from the bodies of children.
> >
> > THE GREAT FIRE (SECOND VERSION)
> >
> > Long ago Moon was attacked and wounded, and thus
> > the
> > Great Fire originated. As soon as people noticed
> > blood
> > on Moon, they started to chant and to shout and
> > they struck their dogs to make them bark. Men
> > discharged
> > their rifles in the hope that the monster which
was
> > preying on Moon would be frightened and relinquish
> > his
> > prey, but all this was of no avail. Moon was far
> > away
> > and his weapons broke because his spear and
hisclub
> > were carved of soft yuchan wood (Chorisia
insignis)
> > instead of hard palo mataco (Achatocarpus
praecox).
> >
> > A fragment of Moon fell down and caused a fire.
> > Everyone rushed to a lagoon where abundant
> > bulrushes grew.
> > As the fire was spreading over the surface of
> > the earth burning the grass and the trees, people
> > entered the lagoon. Those who had taken refuge
> > among the bulrushes were saved, but those who had
> > remained in the open places
> > perished in the boiling water.
> >
> STAR MYTHOLOGY AND COSMOGONY
> SUN AND MOON
>
> Sun (ahewa) is a big, fat woman who walks across the
> sky and every evening enters a fissure between the
> sky and the earth. At the time of the winter
solstice
> she
> is a young swift-moving girl. As a result, days are
> short. At the summer solstice she is an old woman
who
> walks slowly and with difficulty. That is why summer
> days are long and why the Sun disappears late.
>
> Moon (aworc'k) is a pot-bellied man whose bluish
> intestines can be seen through his skin. His enemy
is
> a spirit of death, the celestial Jaguar. Now and
then
> the Jaguar springs up to devour him. Moon defends
> himself with a spear tipped with a head carved of
the
> soft wood of the bottletree (yuchan, Chorisia
> insignis), which breaks at the first impact. He also
> has a club made of the same wood which is too light
> to cause any harm.
>
> The Jaguar tears at his [Moon's] body, pieces of
> which fall on the earth. These are the meteors [not
> distinguished from meteorites], which THREE TIMES
> HAVE CAUSED A WORLD FIRE. The bloody Moon is almost
> entirely devoured by Jaguar. Men however are afraid,
> and they beat their drums, strike their dogs, shout,
> and make all possible noise to frighten the
celestial
> Jaguar and force him to relinquish his prey.
>
> Finally, he [Jaguar} weakens and Moon can
disentangle
> himself from his grip. Moon seizes his weapons and
> puts Jaguar to flight. After a little while, Moon
> grows and again becomes a pot-bellied man. The
> ECLIPSE
> is over.
>
> Jaguar also bears a grudge against Sun, but Sun's
> weapons are made of IRON and she is fearless.
>
> EP
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays!
http://calendar.yahoo.com/
To UNSUBSCRIBE from the 'meteorobs' email list, use the Web form at:
http://www.tiacdot net/users/lewkaren/meteorobs/subscribe.html